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Welcome to Certabo forum
Both posts in italian and in english are accepted on the forum to help everybody to provide contribution irrespective to geographical location. Object of the forum is to provide technical information on various items and help developer and users to personalise software for Certabo chessboards. User explicitly accepts the conditions of use of this forum here reported.
A brief introduction of user is always appreciated in section Welcome to….
Benvenuti nel forum di Certabo
Sul forum possono essere postati articoli sia in lingua italiana che inglese per permettere a tutti di dare il proprio contributo da diversi luoghi geografici. Il forum ha come scopo fornire informazioni tecniche in generale e aiutare gli sviluppatori ed utenti a personalizzare software per le scacchiere Certabo. L’utente accetta esplicitamente le condizioni del presente forum consultabili qui.
Un breve saluto del nuovo utente è sempre gradito nella sezione Benvenuti a….
Human vs human games
hugo.1961@hugo-1961
6 Posts
#1 · March 14, 2020, 4:11 pm
Quote from hugo.1961 on March 14, 2020, 4:11 pmCan the Certabo boards be used for human vs human games, so it can keep track of all them and save them as PGN's ?
If so, is there a limit as to the number of games that can be saved ?
What about blitz games, is the Certabo board capable of keeping up with the quick moves and sense/detect them quickly enough to detect them or is there a limit for the "between-moves" timing ?
Thank you very much
Can the Certabo boards be used for human vs human games, so it can keep track of all them and save them as PGN's ?
If so, is there a limit as to the number of games that can be saved ?
What about blitz games, is the Certabo board capable of keeping up with the quick moves and sense/detect them quickly enough to detect them or is there a limit for the "between-moves" timing ?
Thank you very much
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Pietro@pietro-mandurino
349 Posts
#2 · March 14, 2020, 10:39 pm
Quote from Pietro on March 14, 2020, 10:39 pmQuote from hugo.1961 on March 14, 2020, 4:11 pmCan the Certabo boards be used for human vs human games, so it can keep track of all them and save them as PGN's ?
If so, is there a limit as to the number of games that can be saved ?
What about blitz games, is the Certabo board capable of keeping up with the quick moves and sense/detect them quickly enough to detect them or is there a limit for the "between-moves" timing ?
Thank you very much
Hello Hugo
Thank for the question sure it can you just need to select human mode and the game can will be recorded by the software then you can save at anytime and you will find in the PC documents/certabo saved games directory. It will be saved in .pgn standard format and can be then exported in any other gui. There is no limit you can just call them with different name. Conversly you can open any .pgn and start playing from any position of that game.
The software has a special function to detect black and white move made at same time, if it misses one interim FEN it does look back to legal path and is able to detect the contemporary move correctly. Anyhow this work for one single contemporary move, for very blitz or bullet game if the sequence of contemporary moves is too fast it can be missed at some point.
All the best
Pietro
Quote from hugo.1961 on March 14, 2020, 4:11 pmCan the Certabo boards be used for human vs human games, so it can keep track of all them and save them as PGN's ?
If so, is there a limit as to the number of games that can be saved ?
What about blitz games, is the Certabo board capable of keeping up with the quick moves and sense/detect them quickly enough to detect them or is there a limit for the "between-moves" timing ?
Thank you very much
Hello Hugo
Thank for the question sure it can you just need to select human mode and the game can will be recorded by the software then you can save at anytime and you will find in the PC documents/certabo saved games directory. It will be saved in .pgn standard format and can be then exported in any other gui. There is no limit you can just call them with different name. Conversly you can open any .pgn and start playing from any position of that game.
The software has a special function to detect black and white move made at same time, if it misses one interim FEN it does look back to legal path and is able to detect the contemporary move correctly. Anyhow this work for one single contemporary move, for very blitz or bullet game if the sequence of contemporary moves is too fast it can be missed at some point.
All the best
Pietro
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#3 · March 15, 2020, 7:07 pm
Quote from hugo.1961 on March 15, 2020, 7:07 pmThank you very much for your reply, however, I got extra info from the chess.com forum to better formulate my question, more specifically:
"there is some delay in detection as the RFID tag scanning takes a short amount of time, and it's read multiple times to do filter out single misreadings. This could probably be optimised in software for the specific use case. I guess you could ask CERTABO directly what maximum delay one could expect for position detection".
Could you please provide further details on this ? How long (minimum time) would a second move have to wait to be made after the first one is completed, so it can be 100% detected ? Sorry for the inconvenience
Thanks again, have good day
Thank you very much for your reply, however, I got extra info from the chess.com forum to better formulate my question, more specifically:
"there is some delay in detection as the RFID tag scanning takes a short amount of time, and it's read multiple times to do filter out single misreadings. This could probably be optimised in software for the specific use case. I guess you could ask CERTABO directly what maximum delay one could expect for position detection".
Could you please provide further details on this ? How long (minimum time) would a second move have to wait to be made after the first one is completed, so it can be 100% detected ? Sorry for the inconvenience
Thanks again, have good day
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Pietro@pietro-mandurino
349 Posts
#4 · March 15, 2020, 9:55 pm
Quote from Pietro on March 15, 2020, 9:55 pmHello Hugo no incovenience at all of course 🙂
Let me explain better, to split the time waiting time iusse which is not pertinent to this special case. Normally the device acquires position and name about 2 to 3 times per second and it makes an average which by default is 3 readings. So normally the time to register a move can be around 1-1,5 seconds. Anyhow typically the time is bit longer around 2 up to 3 sec because during normal play you may want to slide the piece on the board and maybe not that fast. So in roder to have quite natural behaviour if you reach the square we wait for some time 1,5-2 sec. more to get assurance the piece is there otherwise you may end up a pawn in e3 during sliding to e4 for example. So this way you cannot anyhow play reliably very fast counting on reading speed of the board.
To get around this only when you play between real humans locally (we made this feature for tournaments broadcasting) we made via software so if you for example take two pieces black and white and move at same time the software will detect this and else if it has missed for example the white move, it will find find both piece moved so it will know that the white must have moved in that square before the black so he is able to get correctly the move. As said this function is usable if you play between humans on the same board to register the game and if you do not do several of this move at same time which is very unlikely but of course for super fast game it may be still anyhow not enough as it maybe impossible to rebuilt the legal path back. Possibly it can be tuned a bit more to gain something (not much) but it will penalised a bit the standard way to play.
If you intend to play on line there would be some further delay because the transmission of the move and time required for moving opponent pieces so blitz cannot reliably played for comfortable you shall go for time + some increment.
Hope this help to clarify a bit more but please feel free to ask.
All the best
Pietro
Hello Hugo no incovenience at all of course 🙂
Let me explain better, to split the time waiting time iusse which is not pertinent to this special case. Normally the device acquires position and name about 2 to 3 times per second and it makes an average which by default is 3 readings. So normally the time to register a move can be around 1-1,5 seconds. Anyhow typically the time is bit longer around 2 up to 3 sec because during normal play you may want to slide the piece on the board and maybe not that fast. So in roder to have quite natural behaviour if you reach the square we wait for some time 1,5-2 sec. more to get assurance the piece is there otherwise you may end up a pawn in e3 during sliding to e4 for example. So this way you cannot anyhow play reliably very fast counting on reading speed of the board.
To get around this only when you play between real humans locally (we made this feature for tournaments broadcasting) we made via software so if you for example take two pieces black and white and move at same time the software will detect this and else if it has missed for example the white move, it will find find both piece moved so it will know that the white must have moved in that square before the black so he is able to get correctly the move. As said this function is usable if you play between humans on the same board to register the game and if you do not do several of this move at same time which is very unlikely but of course for super fast game it may be still anyhow not enough as it maybe impossible to rebuilt the legal path back. Possibly it can be tuned a bit more to gain something (not much) but it will penalised a bit the standard way to play.
If you intend to play on line there would be some further delay because the transmission of the move and time required for moving opponent pieces so blitz cannot reliably played for comfortable you shall go for time + some increment.
Hope this help to clarify a bit more but please feel free to ask.
All the best
Pietro
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